Relationship to JSR 291 [was: Re: Bryan's comments]

Richard S. Hall heavy at UNGOVERNED.ORG
Wed May 30 16:02:36 PDT 2007

On May 30, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Stanley M. Ho wrote:

> Glyn Normington wrote:
>> *Bryan Atsatt <bryan.atsatt at ORACLE.COM>* wrote on 30/05/2007
>> 07:57:59:
>> ...
>>  > So the open issue is the richness of the import "language":
>> must we
>>  > support only lowest-common-denominator, or can we do better
>> without
>>  > over-complicating the design?
>>  >
>>  > I for one would like to be able to have a single module express
>>  > dependencies on modules from both the same and different
>> ModuleSystems,
>>  > *using the standard semantics of each*. This may be reaching
>> too far,
>>  > but we should at least explore it seriously while we figure out
>> what
>>  > interop means here...
>> At this point, I feel that is likely to be reaching too far, but I'm
>> happy to play along and see what we can learn along the way.
> I agreed with Glyn that this might be reaching too far. Before we dive
> too much into how to implement interoperability, I think one of the
> outstanding questions we should answer first is what degree of import
> interoperability we want to offer. There are four possibilities:
> 1. JSR 277 module imports OSGi module by module name
> 2. OSGi module imports JSR 277 module by module name
> 3. OSGi module imports JSR 277 module by package name
> 4. JSR 277 module imports OSGi module by package name
> Let's ignore the 294 issues and the module initialization issues
> for now
> to simplify this discussion.
> I think we all agreed #1 and #2 are important to support and the
> reflective APIs already enable these (of course, there are minor
> issues
> we still have to address as we evolve the APIs.)
> That said, it is unclear to me how important it is to support #3
> and #4,
> so I think the first question for this EG is whether we want to
> support
> #3 and #4 at all. However, let's pretend #3 and #4 are important for
> this specific discussion.
> I think #3 is already possible since the OSGi framework could look up
> the appropriate module which exported the package in the repository,
> using the reflective APIs. Afterwards, the OSGi framework can then do
> the necessary wiring. Yes, the reflective APIs can be further
> refined to
> make it easier for the OSGi framework to query modules by exported
> package name from the repository, but this is a minor issue that we
> can
> address easily.

I am not so sure supporting #3 is as straight forward as you suggest
here. Specially, the OSGi modularity layer [for the most part]
assumes that packages are atomic units; there is no way to specify
that your export or import something smaller than a package. Since
277 modules declare exports in terms of classes, it is not clear how
we would know if a 277 module was exporting an entire package. This
would, at a minimum, require that we assume we can inspect the
contents of the module and see that the contents of a contained
package matches the module's export signature for that package.

-> richard

> #4 is a bit complicated, because there is no import-by-package
> semantic
> in the current module layer's APIs and I think we all agreed that we
> don't want to support this semantic directly in the module system
> defined by JSR 277. In this context, the question is really about what
> it would take to make #4 possible if we want to support it, and so far
> there are two different approaches we have discussed:
> a. Treat import-by-package separately from import-by-module in the
> reflective APIs and make the module layer fully aware of the
> import-by-package concept.
> b. Expose exported-package using the ModuleDefinition abstraction, and
> provide necessary hooks (e.g. consistency checking) for the module
> system to resolve this kind of dependency appropriately. The module
> layer is not aware of the import-by-package concept at all. New import
> dependency granularity could also be introduced in a similar manner in
> the future without requiring significant changes in the module layer.
> As Richard and I discussed in previous emails, it seems to make the
> most
> sense for JSR 277 to define the minimal set of features possible in
> the
> module layer to accomplish what needs to be accomplished to provide
> core
> modularity support in the Java platform. I think (b) follows this
> principle nicely while (a) does not. If we decide to support #3 and
> #4,
> then how we want to address #4 would impact our overall design
> significantly.
> Is there anyone in the EG provide good reasons why #3 and #4 are
> important to be supported? If so, is there anyone in the EG think
> (b) is
> not feasible at all and we should do (a) instead to support #4? Can
> you
> explain your rationale?
>>  >
>>  > The current design requires that each ModuleSystem provide its own
>>  > resolution logic, and that each definition will be resolved by its
>>  > owning ModuleSystem. This model appears to provide flexibility for
>>  > significant differences in implementation, but we really don't
>> know
>>  > enough at this point. Perhaps only an actual second
>> implementation will
>>  > tell us if this provides useful flexibility.
> In the existing module systems we are aware, e.g. OSGi and
> NetBeans, we
> already know their resolution logics are different from each other.
> Even
> if they are migrated/re-based to JSR 277 in the future, I think we
> should expect their resolution logic would remain the same to maintain
> backward compatibility with their existing modules/bundles. In other
> words, their resolution logic would still be different from each
> other.
>> A phased approach would be particularly beneficial if the initial
>> phase
>> could be delivered as part of Java 7 and subsequent phases
>> implemented
>> strictly on top of Java 7. But getting the API right up front
>> might be
>> tricky unless we can spot some really good abstractions or
>> prototype the
>> later phases sufficiently well. Is that the kind of phasing you
>> had in
>> mind?
> Once an API is put into the SE platform, it will stick around almost
> forever. I think if we go with the phased approach on interoperability
> support (I believe this is what Bryan suggested), it would be much
> better to simply left out those features/APIs which do not have
> implementations to back them up from JDK 7, rather than putting the
> half-baked features/APIs into the release and regret later. ;) We can
> always add new APIs in subsequence releases if we decide to offer
> better
> degree of interoperability in the future.
> - Stanley

More information about the jsr277-eg-observer mailing list