JavaFX 8 Progress

ozemale at ozemale at
Thu Jul 18 14:09:22 PDT 2013


The various applet and Web Start deployment options are severly
damaging the entire Java brand. and should be discontinued ASAP.

Even before the recent security issues raised their ugly heads there
have been several issues with either launching Java applications from
within a web page or running them as applets and the user experience
has been dismal to say the least.

The main reason why Java applets had such a short-lived period of
popularity was because Flash came along.  Flash applets started
significantly faster, didn't pop-up any security warnings and almost
always "just worked".  The exact opposite was true of applets and,
sadly, this has only gone further downhill lately.

For many years the browser vendors have gone out of their way to make
running Java in the browser a very painful experience for the end
user.  Now we have the situation where most people assume every Java
applet is a security threat and avoid them like the plague.

Anyway, I do not believe Java, JavaFX or any plugin-based technology
has any place in a web browser.  This includes Flash and
Silverlight.  We have HTML5 for that kind of app.  Surely it won't
be long until all browser vendors make it *impossible* for Java to run
inside the browser or simply not support *any* plugins.

What's the point of investing any further effort into the Java
Plugin?  Yes, I know there are legacy apps and applets out there that
need to run but Oracle should be focused on getting JavaFX into the
"modern" platforms and their associated app stores.  Why not issue an
End Of LIfe bulletin that signals the end of the Java Plugin so anyone
out there still relying on Java applets can have time to find an

Let's face it, almost *all* the security vulnerabilities exposed in
recent months only affect Java in the browser.  All the effort Oracle
expends on patching these vulnerabilities and tightening up the
security model should be spent on advancing JavaFX on mobiles and


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Zwolenski" 
To:"David Ray" 
Cc:"mike.ehrenberg at Ehrenberg" ,
"openjfx-dev at" , "JeremyJongsma" 
Sent:Fri, 19 Jul 2013 06:47:46 +1000
Subject:Re: JavaFX 8 Progress

 Among general complaints and my own disasters with it, I had this guy
write to me:

 The failure of webstart is making him lose customers (they literally
are emailing him and telling him it's too hard to install). This is
one of the very few commercial, public apps that use desktop-java and
webstart (I'd be keen to know about any others - I know of none that
use jfx?). 

 From what I understand of the work being carried out, I highly doubt
any of the fixes or improvements being worked on are going to help
people like this. 

 I love the idea of web deployment but it's failed and getting worse
with the complexities now added in your attempts to keep it secure. In
my opinion, web deploy should be deprecated or at least placed in
minimal 'bandaid' only fixes and all effort should be put into making
native bundles actually useful and into adding app store support. 

 On 19/07/2013, at 2:10 AM, David Ray  wrote:

 > I don't want to open up the webstart can of worms here, but we have
multiple issues surrounding recognition and validity of signed jars
when using certain VMARGS in combination with OSGi style deployment.
We finally settled on JWrapper due to WebStarts apparent "brittleness"
- but as you say, this is neither here nor there as far as JavaFX is
 > Anyway, thanks for getting back to us on the deployment tools
 > David
 > On Jul 18, 2013, at 9:22 AM, Joe McGlynn  wrote:
 >> No, the deployment team works on these, not the FX team. It's the
same bits for FX and Swing/AWT when running browser-deployed apps
(which includes applets and web start). Deployment, FX and Swing are
all part of the Java client org.
 >> There are a number of bug fixed being worked in this area, as well
as new requirements around how to deploy a secure applet or web start
app. The deploy code base is currently identical between 7u and JDK 8.
If you are working with deploy technologies you should know this area
is rapidly changing and I'd strongly advise staying on the latest
release (currently 7u40 EA) and following the updates to the docs,
especially around best practices for deployment.
 >> In short, these are:
 >> Buy a code signing certificate from a recognized CA and sign your
 >> Use the new "permissions" and "codebase" JAR manifest attributes
 >> I'd recommend avoiding the use of "mixed code" if at all possible
as that results in additional warning prompts to the end user and
additional runtime risks.
 >> I'd also recommend testing your app with the security slider at
the "Very High" level with every update of the JRE. Typically new
restrictions are introduced first at Very High, and then propagated
down into High and ultimately Medium over time.
 >> If there are problems using deployment with FX, of course report
the issue and the team will investigate. I'm aware of one problem that
causes some FX web start apps not to work with the latest release.
It's being investigated right now.
 >> On Jul 18, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Daniel Zwolenski  wrote:
 >>> Sure, but no one other than the JFX team are (or will be) working
on these
 >>> right? They are effectively desktop technologies and no other
team has any
 >>> interest in them I'm guessing?
 >>> I'd assume if they're not on the JFX roadmap, they're not on the
 >>> roadmap?
 >>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Artem Ananiev wrote:
 >>>> On 7/18/2013 3:00 AM, David Ray wrote:
 >>>>> Hi Richard,
 >>>>> I don't see any mention of WebStart and JavaFX on the milestone
list -
 >>>>> are issues surrounding (and suffocating :)) WebStart going to
addressed as
 >>>>> part of the JDK release 8 instead?
 >>>> Java Plugin and Java Web Start are not parts of JavaFX (although
 >>>> provides some APIs for them), they are shared between JDK and
JavaFX and
 >>>> released as a part of Oracle JDK8 (not included to OpenJDK).
 >>>> Thanks,
 >>>> Artem
 >>>> David
 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
 >>>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 12:06 PM, Richard Bair 
 >>>>> wrote:
 >>>>> Hi Peter,
 >>>>>> Our dates match up with JDK 8:**
 >>>>>> projects/jdk8/milestones
 >>>>>> Feature complete was a month ago (but little API tweaks
continue to
 >>>>>> happen). Things are supposed to be reasonably stable by
October 24 (Zero
 >>>>>> Bug Bounce**projects/jdk8/milestones#Zero_**
 >>>>>> Bug_Bounce)
 >>>>>> and GA in March.
 >>>>>> Richard
 >>>>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Peter Penzov 
 >>>>>> wrote:
 >>>>>> Hi,
 >>>>>>> I'm new to JavaFX I'm interested what is the current progress
 >>>>>>> development of JavaFX 8. I want to use it for base framework
for my
 >>>>>>> enterprise application but I have concerns is it stable to be
used? Can
 >>>>>>> you
 >>>>>>> give me some information do you plan to add something else
before the
 >>>>>>> official release?
 >>>>>>> Best wishes,
 >>>>>>> Peter

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