Future of JavaFX

Peter Pilgrim peter.pilgrim at gmail.com
Tue Dec 1 17:16:58 UTC 2015

How timely as I just posted that response and Dalibor's news just
arrived in the my inbox within 1 minute ...


JDK 9 will arrive 6 months later than expected 23rd March 2017 ... so
FX people go to work, really go work.

On 1 December 2015 at 17:12, Peter Pilgrim <peter.pilgrim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All
> On 1 December 2015 at 13:27, Johan Vos <johan.vos at gluonhq.com> wrote:
>> Hi Dirk, all,
>> Although this person from Codename One attacked me a few times before
>> (using words like we're selling snake oil), I tried to ignore it. This is
>> very uncommon for the Java community. In the Java community, we have
>> different views, we prefer different technologies, but we show at least
>> some basic respect to other views and we don't insult people. Clearly, this
>> isn't the policy inside Codename One. I wonder where they get the time for
>> writing negative things about others, rather than writing positive things
>> about their own technologies. So although I'm offended, I try to write code
>> and keep my customers happy rather than fighting.
> I saw this appalling behaviour on the aforementioned blog site. Shai
> was hardly diplomatic, especially for an ex-Sun / Oracle wasn't he?
> I have heard on that Japanese anecdote BEATING THE GRASS in order to
> force the snakes to come out, but I wonder who is the enemy here.
>> But the moment you may lose customers because what others write about a
>> technology you want to use, a line is crossed. I keep all options open on
>> how to respond, but here are already some thoughts:
> It's a bad as somebody hating Spring Framework, however I think I will
> let that rest again, because I already posted a response for that.
>> * The JavaFX engineers at Oracle (current and past) are doing a fantastic
>> job.
> Yes. It also included Brian Goetz and others people who were on the
> same mailing list circa 2008 and 2009 with JavaFX Script.
>> * Yes, I wish Oracle would spend more resources on JavaFX (and on Java in
>> general).
>> * JavaFX is growing. Gluon is growing.
> And many executives can understand that Swing is no longer supported
> and there is a technology risk in terms of RECRUITMENT, TRAINING,
> MAINTAINABILITY and ROBUSTNESS if they continue to use it. There are
> financial services houses such Murex who are Swing based still and
> sell solutions to investment banks. These rich GUI solutions inside
> the big banks are very unlikely to go HTML5 and web based soon, so the
> lead developers in those businesses probably have evaluated JavaFX.
> So I asked Shai what needs to happens in order to cross the divide?
> For all you involved in FX, and now that Oracle evangelism, advocacy,
> whatever, has all but disappeared, need to come out three (3)
> requirements that get the product over the line.
>> * There are many JavaFX success stories, but unfortunately many of those
>> are hidden behind company walls. At Gluon, we have great customers with a
>> huge investment in JavaFX that make amazing products. But company policies
>> often prohibit us from even mentioning those on our website. This is an
>> issue, as I believe many people would be surprised to see who is using
>> JavaFX and at what size. I'm not sure how to address this, and it is
>> something Peter Pilgrim talked about in a follow-up post as well.
> If these products can be exposed in some meaningful way then that
> would really help.
> Companies are willing to show these Responsive Web Design, Adaptive
> Web Design, HTML5 and latest browser support, and yet this must be
> achieve with JavaFX.
> Clearly what is needed is a poster child. Some JavaFX application that
> looks simple, does great thing, and work amazing well across all
> devices. I wish I knew what that would be.
>> * JavaFX on Mobile is getting there. Don't believe self-declared and
>> aggressive "mobile experts" with a different agenda. I'm one of those
>> people working day and night to make this happen. And apart from very few
>> exceptions, the Java community has been very supportive to this effort. I
>> don't let those exceptions ruining my day or my customers.
> Nor should you or anyone else feel deflated.
> Shai is frustrated, obviously, with the mobile story so far. He feels
> that the scene graph solution is overkill for the current generation
> of smartphone and mobile devices. He reckons the scene graph abilities
> are hard to reach under GPU and the native operating system for the
> mobile devices. I don't necessarily  agree with him, the scene graph
> was what sold me on Chris Oliver's original vision on (F3 (form
> follows function) precursor to JavaFX 1.0 (Script)). I think that
> mobile devices will gain scene graph and better GPU/CPU very soon.
> Johan has taken the mobile solution further with Gluon. At least there
> are working JavaFX applications in the app stores. This is better than
> 2011 when we were dreaming off the ability to achieve this.
> What is missing on mobile front? Common API for magnetrometry,
> gyroscope, media, camera support and of course high performance
> graphics?
>> * There really is a JavaFX eco-system. Oracle is spending resources on it,
>> and there are a large number of individuals and companies providing free
>> and commercial frameworks, services, trainings, books.
>> * JavaFX is open source with a business-friendly license. You don't like
>> something? Fix it.
>> Dirk, keep up the good work. I hope your customer realises that there is a
>> large community behind JavaFX, with both open-source and commercial
>> offerings. They should feel safe using JavaFX.
> And also now is the time to request changes for JDK 9 whilst it is
> still in early access. From the presentations at JavaOne, there will
> be only one FX module in the JDK.  (There was this thing to do with
> DLL or shared runtimes when I was hanging around regularly in 2012 )
> If you don't agree with it, or want to modularise FX in the JDK even
> more, then now is the time to act and let Mark Reinhold, Alex Buckley
> and Alan Bateman know asap.
>> - Johan
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dirk @ Google <dlemmermann at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when
>>> Shay Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine (
>>> dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding
>>> JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the
>>> question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ (
>>> https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html <
>>> https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>).
>>> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff
>>> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have
>>> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the
>>> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX
>>> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer
>>> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not
>>> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a
>>> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by
>>> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
>>> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees /
>>> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX
>>> and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>>> Dirk
> --
> Best wishes
> Peter Pilgrim,
>     Java Champion / Director P.E.A.T.  LTD
>  ++++   Scala and Java EE Software Development / Design / Architect
> for `BlueChip' enterprises, London, UK ++++
> I am currently writing ``Digital Java EE 7 Development'' Packt Pub
> (September 2015)
> ++++ Digital ++ Finance ++ Adaptation  ++ Transformation ++ Software ++++
> :: http://www.xenonique.co.uk/blog/  ::
> :: http://twitter.com/peter_pilgrim ::
> :: http://java-champions.java.net/ ::

Best wishes

Peter Pilgrim,
    Java Champion / Director P.E.A.T.  LTD

 ++++   Scala and Java EE Software Development / Design / Architect
for `BlueChip' enterprises, London, UK ++++

I am currently writing ``Digital Java EE 7 Development'' Packt Pub
(September 2015)

++++ Digital ++ Finance ++ Adaptation  ++ Transformation ++ Software ++++

:: http://www.xenonique.co.uk/blog/  ::
:: http://twitter.com/peter_pilgrim ::
:: http://java-champions.java.net/ ::

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