[External] : Re: Guards redux
guy.steele at oracle.com
Wed Mar 10 19:10:28 UTC 2021
> On Mar 10, 2021, at 12:04 PM, Brian Goetz <brian.goetz at oracle.com> wrote:
>> You nail the guard to a pattern, which is equivalent until we have nested patterns (and "or"/"and" patterns).
> We have nested patterns already in the JEPs on the table. Where's the problem?
>> I see a lot of advantages of using && to link a guard to a pattern,
>> - the symbol is heavy so there is a clear visual separation
>> - without any supplementary parenthesis, && after the type pattern in an instanceofis the && between expression, it's almost like you can not have a guard with an instanceof, in practice, few instanceof will have a guard.
> I agree few instanceof will have a guard, but users are still free to express it that way if they like, and there's nothing wrong with that.
>> I still think that using a guard inside a nested pattern is ugly but it can be just that, ugly. Someone may want a short-circuit in a deeply nested patterns .
> Yes. This is not unlike other compositions; for any compositional tool, you can overuse it. (You can arbitrarily compose boolean expressions (or arbitrarily chain method invocations), but sometimes this is taking it too far.)
>> As i said to Gavin, i'm not at ease with using the symbol '&' in between patterns.
> I think that this is mostly a "who moved my cheese" reaction; you're used to thinking that & is just for bitwise operations. But, that's not actually true; we already use & and | on types -- intersection type casts, additional generic type bounds, multi-catch. This appeals to a notion that & and | are boolean-like combinators on types (even if not exposed in all places they might make sense), but this is a different kind of combination than on integers. And yet a different kind of combination on patterns. (In an alternate universe, we might have different symbols for adding ints vs floats vs string concatenation, but + works well enough that overloading the symbols is OK -- because using + in this way appeals to the underlying algebraic monoid structure these types share.)
We all know that `+` is not your best poster child for this argument.
(“foo” + 1) + 2 produces “foo12”
“foo” + (1 + 2) produces “foo3”
which is not my idea of good monoid behavior. But there is a lot of wiggle room in your use of the word “appeals”. :-)
> The reason that & and | make sense on patterns, and on types, is that, like the more familiar versions on bits, they describe a _boolean algebra_. Boolean algebras have familiar properties such as De Morgan's Laws. These work for types (when interpreted as value sets) as well as bits, and they work for patterns too.
> I think where you're getting hung up is that when patterns produce bindings, and other patterns consume those bindings, we have a dataflow dependence which would appear to undermine certain other expected properties of a boolean algebra, such as commutativity. But, if we view those dataflow dependencies as a separate constraint -- as we *already do* for ints (e.g., `(x=3)&(x|4)`, is invalid when `x` is an DU int, but valid when `x` is DA), this seeming contradiction vanishes, and is seen to be merely a post-hoc well-formedness constraint. If the WF constraint is satisfied, the expected properties of boolean algebras (associativity, commutativity, absorption, etc) are satisfied too.
And yet, even if we stipulate all that, it is still the case that in expressions, Java uses `&&` to indicate short-circuiting and `&` to indicate no reliance on short-circuiting, and this is long-standing, familiar use. For the other applications cited (intersection type casts, additional generic type bounds, multi-catch) this distinction does not matter. But in principle it does matter for patterns, because while patterns arguably do not involve _evaluation_, they most certainly involve _execution_ of possibly user-written code. If side effects can occur, the distinction arguably matters, and this is worth recognizing as we debate the design.
Nevertheless, as I just wrote in an earlier email, I think that the desire to maintain this distinction should be outweighed by other considerations (visual analogy to type intersection, for which `&` is used but not `&&`; need for distinct symbols for pattern conjunction action and guard attachment in order to solve parsing problems; desire not to invent an arbitrary new symbol such as `&:` or `&&&`).
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