<AWT Dev> <Swing Dev> [12] JDK-7124285: Nothing heard from VoiceOver regarding the status of the progress bar

Philip Race philip.race at oracle.com
Fri Nov 9 05:22:37 UTC 2018

There is no accessible mode. It is accessible by design.
But there are limits. A UI that has dynamically updating graphs that change
by the millisecond displaying data from a source that can't even be read
by eye sight is not going to be able to accessible via speech.
That is out of our scope. The swing progress bar is in the grey area 
mainly because
it is a UI component. I can understand arguments as to where it falls.
As an application designer I might suppose it reasonable that I have
to do something to provide updates to an AT for anything that changes
outside the users control. But what then if you have ten progress bars
loading ten things concurrently. It is hard for the eye to track that.
A screen reader is doomed.


On 11/8/18, 8:54 PM, Shashidhara Veerabhadraiah wrote:
> Hi Phil, Right, Accessibility in swing was way ahead and is still ahead of other alternatives. What I meant was that certain existing framework elements are used interchangeably between 'normal' mode of operation and in 'accessibility' mode. Probably we could have separated that out. Like for ex., focusability in the normal mode of operation means that the user needs to enter\edit some information and the same flag is used for accessibility too. And here software I meant the platform software as well, as they don't have a separate framework and they use the existing framework for accessibility as well where it may have a different meaning, causing certain confusion from developer's point of view.
> Thanks and regards,
> Shashi
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Race
> Sent: Friday, November 9, 2018 10:14 AM
> To: Shashidhara Veerabhadraiah<shashidhara.veerabhadraiah at oracle.com>
> Cc: Alexey Ivanov<alexey.ivanov at oracle.com>; Krishna Addepalli<krishna.addepalli at oracle.com>; Sergey Bylokhov<sergey.bylokhov at oracle.com>; awt-dev at openjdk.java.net; swing-dev at openjdk.java.net
> Subject: Re:<Swing Dev>  <AWT Dev>  [12] JDK-7124285: Nothing heard from VoiceOver regarding the status of the progress bar
> On 11/8/18, 9:10 AM, shashidhara.veerabhadraiah at oracle.com wrote:
>>> But your fix also changes the behaviour for the case where no
>>> accessibility is used: progress bar receives keyboard focus even
>>> though it never needs it because it does not support any input.
>>> It's just the other side of the coin.
>> Very true. The problem is that our software never designed from the
>> accessibility stand point of view and we are trying to use the
>> existing framework for a different purpose(focusability). Hence it
>> leads to such confusions.
> Whoa. I don't know what you mean here. Maybe it is very narrow but I can't let this pass.
> Swing was absolutely designed with accessibility in mind. Probably the first and maybe only UI toolkit to have it designed in from inception. The accessibility team were embedded in the Swing team. There was nothing comparable anywhere else in 1997-8 (20 years ago!) So Java + Swing was years ahead of anything else anyone had and it is not fundamentally lacking even today.
> Bugs, overlooked things, things that should be updated etc. sure.
> But don't go propagating misinformation that A11Y was ignored in the design.
> -phil.

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