Jeff McDonald at
Mon Feb 20 02:26:07 PST 2012

Funny that you'd say that Sun didn't eat enough of their own dog food. I
said that exact quote to a few members of the Swing team at a JavaOne one
year. Their response was that "Sun uses Swing a lot internally" and that
was that. The Swing team was loaded with bright people who knew what cool
apps look like so why the disconnect?  Well, Sun was an enterprise company
that sold stuff to other enterprise companies. Swing did remarkably well in
that arena. Sun (and Swing as a part of that). Sun didn't make desktop apps
so they didn't eat a lot of desktop dog food. The same is still true at
Oracle, but there seems to be a different level of excitement for the
desktop and mobile devices. For most people, Apple is the biggest UI
innovator on the block. Eating your own dog food is a powerful motivator.
I'd like to see Netbeans adopt JavaFX, but they have a lot of Swing based
code so that probably won't happen anytime soon. Hopefully the management
team above the FX team doesn't think that prototyping JavaOne demos is
really eating your own dog food.

JavaFX everywhere would be nice. Without a better deployment story ...
average consumers won't care about JavaFX no matter how good JavaFX is.


On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Jeff Martin <jeff at> wrote:

> +1 on deployment. Although I've had good experience shipping a developer
> tool with Java Web Start, I think when you look at all the Java blogs out
> there and see how few embed running examples of their code, it tells you
> something about Java's flaw as a web application platform. The FXML
> discussion might contain a key to this: within a year, will 1000 savvy
> graphics designers embed some token JavaFX into their web sites?
> I think the problem with Sun was that they didn't eat enough of their own
> dog food. Apple is a great example of this. If Oracle believes in JavaFX,
> they need to decide on a couple categories of apps and prove to everyone
> that it is viable. This process would improve JavaFX immensely.
> That, and announce an iOS/Android strategy. :-)
> jeff
> On Feb 12, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Jeff McDonald wrote:
> > Deployment is so important that I'd hope that it is at the top of the
> list.
> > For me, I've always wanted to be able to push out a single double
> clickable
> > app. No Java installs necessary. No Java version worries. As a developer
> I
> > want full control of handling the versioning dependencies in my apps
> > (co-bundling the JRE and all other libs and resources). I like it in part
> > because I can take responsibility for what I ship. Most people prefer
> > double clickable apps that require a one step install.
> >
> > <… deleted ...>

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